Russia Launches Military Action in Ukraine

[mdiver]

Two of the families are staying in social housing (the building we see in the video, behind the swings). The other one in someone's second home. My village has 250 inhabitants. It we can help, (almost) anyone can: not helping is a choice.
Sorry about the quality of the video, I had to compress it a lot and didn´t really know how to do it. Also, sorry it's mostly in Spanish.
View attachment 1159

What your village is doing is incredible.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[DiminutiveRocker]

Question, would it have been better for the Ukraine to surrender, albeit temporarily, giving time for these sanctions to really impact Russias growth and saving the billions it'll take to rebuild?

FYI, I've hated Putin since the moment he had the nerve to endorse Bush. Sommofabesh.

Anyway, massive destruction disturbs me in a strange way. Id rather prevent it, hence I wonder if a different path would have yeilded desired results even though it would, maybe, take a much longer time to get there.

My take is that Putin (who cherishes the old Soviet Republic) is obsessed with Ukraine and wants to break it at any cost, which is not only the devastation he is unleashing on the Ukrainian people but the thousands of Russian soldiers who have lost their lives already. Ukraine, a sovereign and free nation, do not want Putin and the Russian army there so they are bravely fighting to defend their country. Putin is not going to win this but he would rather take down as many with him (Russians and Ukrainians) than stop this assault and admit he made a huge mistake. He is a war criminal, albeit, the devil himself.

 

[DiminutiveRocker]

I need for the asshats in DC to walk back their criticism of President Biden for calling Putin a "war criminal" and a "butcher." After seeing the dead bodies strewn on the streets of Bucha, horrific evidence that every word Biden has spoken about Putin is 100% true.

Putin.

Slava Ukraini

 

[DiminutiveRocker]

Boris Johnson (UK) and the heads of the EU visit Zelensky in show of Western support of the Ukraine. Nice hour of Zelensky interview on 60 Minutes as well. Putin's greatest fears of Ukraine becoming more of a "western" country are expedited by his own actions.

Meanwhile Putin appoints the "Butcher of Syria" as new commander of the Russian army, known for his assault on civilian populations during wartime.


After much bloodshed and physical and human devastation... is there any way Putin walks away from this with anything?

 

[maplenpg]

Boris Johnson (UK) and the heads of the EU visit Zelensky in show of Western support of the Ukraine. Nice hour of Zelensky interview on 60 Minutes as well. Putin's greatest fears of Ukraine becoming more of a "western" country are expedited by his own actions.

Meanwhile Putin appoints the "Butcher of Syria" as new commander of the Russian army, known for his assault on civilian populations during wartime.


After much bloodshed and physical and human devastation... is there any way Putin walks away from this with anything?

I think there's no doubt that Putin has crossed the line now, there's evidence of butchering and torturing, and Putin has refused to speak out against his men who are committing these atrocities. Now we have a possible chemical attack on top. Putin will go down in history for all the wrong reasons.

I'm afraid the EU and the UK have some tough choices. The EU are still buying oil from Russia, and cutting it completely may mean rationing as I understand it. The UK are still buying Russian oil too, apparently until the end of the year. I'd be interested to hear @SilverT7 or @Ahmir7 's views on whether the EU are doing enough. I'd also be interested to hear whether the US thinks Biden is doing enough. Sadly I can't see any of this ending anytime soon.

 

[barnswallow]

Mariupol, Ukraine... a few photos from before the city was destroyed by the Russian invasion. [from Wikipedia, 4.23.22]

Mariupol's Hotel Continental, built in 2nd half of 19th C

Donetsk Regional Drama Theatre and 'Crowd listening to Ivan Dorn at the MRPL City Festival

Photo of a monument in Ukraine (I'm more interested just in the city scape).

Beach pier and a football match at Volodomyr Boiko Stadium

Theatre Square

Azovstal iron and steel works

President Volodymyr Zelenskyy at the opening of Mariupol Ice Center on 22 October 2020

Chernobyl disaster memorial

 

[barnswallow]

Russia's military paid a high price for the Kremlin's 'victory' in the ruined city of Mariupol. [NYTimes; 4.22.22]

Russian-backed troops in front of a steel plant in Mariupol, Ukraine, on Thursday. [Chingis Kondarov / Reuters]

Mariupol, a strategic port city, was targeted on the first day of Russia’s invasion two months ago. It has been surrounded by Russian forces for some 50 days and been the scene of some of the most intense fighting of the war.

...

The raging fight in Mariupol has left an estimated 95 percent of the structures in the city destroyed or so damaged that they will likely need to be torn down, and Russia will need soldiers to secure the ruins and clear out any remaining pockets of resistance. Other soldiers might be needed to maintain control of southern Ukraine.

And despite the Kremlin’s claim of victory, the Russians must now maintain their siege of the steel plant.

...

Iryna Vereshchuk, the Ukrainian deputy prime minister, said Friday that the Russian army had made it clear that they would not let civilians leave the plant unless the soldiers inside surrender first. She estimated that around 1,000 civilians, many of them “women, children and the elderly,” were still inside the plant. While Russia opened a corridor for soldiers to surrender, she said, it has not guaranteed safe passage out for civilians.

“The Russians refuse to open a corridor for civilians, cynically pretending that they do not understand the difference between a corridor for the military to surrender and a humanitarian corridor to evacuate the civilians,” she wrote on Telegram. “But they do understand it all. It’s just that they are trying to lay extra pressure on our military.”

 

[barnswallow]

Why Mariupol matters to Russia in three maps [WaPo; 4.21.22]
And... upsetting content warning... nonetheless:
Ukrainians Are Speaking Up About Rape as a War Crime to Ensure the World Holds Russia Accountable [Time Magazine; 4.20.22 ]

 

[DiminutiveRocker]

It is 2022.... how is this happening?

 

[RodeoSchro]

I see that little popdick Rand Paul came out today and kissed Vladimir Putin's ass but surely no one is surprised by that.

 

[barnswallow]

I see that little popdick Rand Paul came out today and kissed Vladimir Putin's ass but surely no one is surprised by that.

John McCain says Rand Paul's 'working for Vladimir Putin' | Daily Mail Online

Senator John McCain (R-AZ) told the Senate that Senator Rand Paul (R-KY) is 'working for Vladimir Putin' if he tries to object a bill for advancing Montenegro's bid to join the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO).

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[Ahmir7]

I think there's no doubt that Putin has crossed the line now, there's evidence of butchering and torturing, and Putin has refused to speak out against his men who are committing these atrocities. Now we have a possible chemical attack on top. Putin will go down in history for all the wrong reasons.

I'm afraid the EU and the UK have some tough choices. The EU are still buying oil from Russia, and cutting it completely may mean rationing as I understand it. The UK are still buying Russian oil too, apparently until the end of the year. I'd be interested to hear @SilverT7 or @Ahmir7 's views on whether the EU are doing enough. I'd also be interested to hear whether the US thinks Biden is doing enough. Sadly I can't see any of this ending anytime soon.

Sorry for the late reply. I don't think the EU are doing enough honestly. I might be in the wrong here but putin threatened to attack us as well if we interfere in any way, which to me sounds like empty threats because he already viewed those sanctions as interference and didn't do anything to us. So he doesn't keep his word on those threats. We should probably send in military defenses or at leat more and better weapons. There's people against this completely and what I'd like to ask them and our politicians is, if that was us who are under attack, would the help we provide the ukraine be enough for us? Would we accept that little or would we demand more? If the answer is "more" then we're not doing enough and I think they know this already.

 

[RodeoSchro]

America's Worst Popdick - Rand Paul, obvs - is single-handedly holding up the latest aid package to the Ukraine. He says his allegiance is to the USA and not the Ukraine but what he's leaving out is that his ultimate allegiance is to Russia and Vladimir Putin.

 

[DiminutiveRocker]

Rand Paul never gets tied of being a dickhead

 

[barnswallow]

As a plant person, I'm aware a travesty was wrought here.

Germ plasm banks like this are unique. I remember hearing a story, long ago, that when there was a famine (in Russia, of all places) the guarders of the plant germ bank there preferred to starve than take from the store of seeds they managed.

And, there's contradicting evidence as reported here:
Fact Check: Did Russia Destroy One of World's Major Seed Banks in Ukraine? [Newsweek; 5.18.22]

So, maybe not all, but only those varieties that were being prepared for planting out, which must be done to maintain the different strain's seed viability, which deteriorates with time.

 

[barnswallow]

Have you been trying to keep track of what’s up and what’s down in Ukraine. One important bridge from Russia to Crimea down; Russian bombings of Ukrainian civilians and critical energy infrastructure in multiple cities up. Noise in support of putin from right-wing leaning Americans up.

 

[RodeoSchro]

Have you been trying to keep track of what’s up and what’s down in Ukraine. One important bridge from Russia to Crimea down; Russian bombings of Ukrainian civilians and critical energy infrastructure in multiple cities up. Noise in support of putin from right-wing leaning Americans up.

It's incredible but the GOP and its QAnon base believe Putin is the good guy.

Every actual Republican from the last 100 years must be spinning in their graves.

 

[maplenpg]

Have you been trying to keep track of what’s up and what’s down in Ukraine. One important bridge from Russia to Crimea down; Russian bombings of Ukrainian civilians and critical energy infrastructure in multiple cities up. Noise in support of putin from right-wing leaning Americans up.

I've become very good friends with a Ukrainian refugee and her son. They are safe here in the UK, but her friends, family, boyfriend, work colleagues, plus her job and home are in Ukraine. It seemed to me there was mixed feelings in Ukraine when the bridge was hit. On the one hand it was a huge strategic win, one the other hand they knew Putin would want revenge.

My friend went back to Kyiv in the summer for a few weeks. She doesn't want to leave her country, her job, everyone she knows, and her boss was asking for her to come back, saying it was safe. Sadly it wasn't, and although daily life goes on pretty much normally for the Ukrainian people in Kyiv, the sirens were still blaring and the schools aren't running properly and so she came back here.

There are many cities without power and water at the minute Ukraine is working hard to restore it, in many ways this has hurt the people more than the bombs in the city as it leaves people unable to work, or do basic everyday stuff.

It makes me really mad to hear that support for Putin is growing from a certain base in the US. To bring in Rodeo's post, I can't see how they are spinning it that he's the good guy. There is no doubt he is a madman and capable of an atrocity on a scale we haven't seen yet. I guess that is maybe what is behind it? Let the dictator win and avoid a world war?

All I know is that the Ukrainian people (and I suspect a huge number of Russians) just want peace. They want life as it was. Sadly, I fear it'll be a long time before that comes.

 

[barnswallow]

long(!) article, here. An interview w Fiona Hill. Remember her? An advisor to the potus in the time of t——. She was in Ukraine during t——‘s blackmail effort, when he threatened and did withhold congressionally approved military support to Ukraine, in order to coerce Zelinsky to launch an investigation into hunter biden (the infamous “…do us a favor, though” line). Hill gave damning testimony during t——‘s first impeachment.

This article has nothing to do with that ugly bit of history. In this article, the interviewer asks interesting questions about the present moment and Hill gives interesting answers.

The headline suggests the focus is on Elon Musk and the message in the headline got my attention but the substance of the conversation is so much more: about the invasion of Ukraine and global implications in a time of change and instability.

Fiona Hill: Elon Musk is transmitting a message for Putin [Politico; 10.17.22]

 

[barnswallow]

We haven't posted in this thread since late 2022.

The main thing to know is there has been delay - delay - delay of efforts to get funding to the Ukraine to the point that Ukrainians have ceded ground due to insufficient military capacity, down to simply not enough bullets. Putin and generals have been taking advantage. So, yesterday's measure in the House was huge for Ukraine.

House passes foreign aid bill, sending help to Ukraine and Israel [WaPo;4.20.24]

The House passed other foreign aid at the same time. I feel conflicted about the aid to Israel. It's hard not to feel that way considering Israel's destruction of Gaza, and the many, many civilian deaths.

If you want to see how every member voted, there's a link in the 3rd paragraph. The MAGA contingent is sorely pissed because House Speaker Mike Johnson, former MAGA stalwart, bucked the trappings and used bipartisan consensus to push the legislation through. Now, it's off to the Senate and President Biden's desk.

Will the MAGAs in the House carry out their threats to eject Mike Johnson for his betrayal of loyalty? We shall see.